April 11, 2009

Mini episode: Fuck Bruce Rosenberger



10 comments:

XantesFire said...

Music sapping my thoughts.

Jewish people are racist, that's what makes them jews.

I don't understand the big deal with Ebony White. Okay back when he was drawn and used it was more acceptable. Nowadays, less so. Bruce Rosenberger is wrong that they should use the traditional appearance because it would offend a potentially large customer base. And the comic companies are into making money. So you don't use the old Ebony White.

Now what should we do about the old one though? Should we find all the old copies and burn them? Or put stickers of the new one over the old Ebony White? When they reprint will they redrawn Ebony White and redo his dialog?

Can't we accept what was old? Sure maybe we don't like how stuff used to be done but since we think something was ugly should we just banish it from history?

A character I used to love reading when I was a kid was Memín Pinguín. He looks a bit like Ebony White but when I was a kid I never saw his appearance as racist. I knew his looks were suppose to be exaggerated, I knew real black people. I knew what they looked like and behaved.

If Memin was made today in the US, I probably would consider it racist. But it's was made in Mexico and continues to be reprinted to this day. Mexico had a different experience with black people thru their history. So is Memin then racist? Mexico certainly doesn't think so. They love him.

Great, now I shouldn't support your podcast, since you support that podcast that wanted me off their porch.

Thoom said...

You can stop the music playing on the page by pushing the pause button.
That's a great song.

I am not asking to destroy the evidence that EW was ever drawn.

I was annoyed that I didn't get any support that I pointed out Rosenberger was wrong, but he got all the support.

He said he didn't understand why they changed him and that he liked the old Ebony White.

That is like a white person saying,
"I don't understand why they stopped segregation*. Those were better times."

I don't suggest destroying evidence that segrgation exists, but I do want to point out that the person has...Issues. I pointed it out and eventually 1)got kicked off the Deliberate Noise Network and 2)lambasted on other shows.

Now that I have had time to reflect, I was thinking "wow that is fucked up. Let me address it on the show."


*When I say segregation, I mean whites only, blacks only designated public areas, not segregation of neighborhoods which still exists as a "class" thing.

XantesFire said...

Well you get my support about Ebony White getting updated is a good thing, not because I think it's racist but because I think it made more business sense for DC to update his looks to look more realistic and "non-racist."

But I'm not sure I agree with your comparison that segregation is similar to RB wanting to keep the old Ebony White look. Segregation was a policy to unequalize opportunities. Keeping Ebony White's old look seems more like a nostalgia bent, rather that a motivation to put black people down. Like I understand why in old cartoons like "Tom & Jerry" and "Bugs Bunny" they take out the old black, chinese and hispanic stereotypes, but I miss seeing the cartoon as it was originally created.

Thoom said...

So the rednecks who miss lynchings, aren't racist murders, but just "nostalgic" for the 1920s and 30s?

You ain't the most sensitive motherfucker on the planet so I don't expect you to understand or champion my point of view.

And you know Memin was a 'fuck you' to blacks and "afro cubans", but since Mexico is made up of mostly non-black "hispanics" of the same "color", and the last thing on a Mexican's mind was (and still is) what a black person thinks, Memin got a pass. Memin is a Mexican thing.

I could probably guess the answer to this, but do you know if there are any English translation Memin comics?

XantesFire said...

Nope, lynching was also a policy to unequalize opportunities.

Memin was a part of their culture. One that most people loved including black mexicans. Ask a black mexican and they'll probably tell you they don't care.

I guess if we genetically engineered intelligent mice they might boycott Mickey Mouse because it's racist white face.

I only seen one issue translated to english online but I can't find it now.

Thoom said...

I almost bought into whatever argument you were trying to make for the hispanic people. Then I saw this picture and woke up. Look at the white kid, look at the Mexican Kid...Then look at the black kid. They make him into an animal. Not to mention the standard Mammy look to his mother. Both characters were obviously inspired by black sterotype characters created in a racist white media of the early 20th century(wiki says the creator of Memi Pinqun was inspired by Ebony White and it's obvious the mother is made to look likethe Aunt Jemima/Mammy sterotype)

The Mexican and Spanish love M.P. like one would love their dog. And this feeds into their feeling of superiority towards blacks. Look at the Mexican president's comment about black folks in America. "Mexicans take jobs in Ameria that even blacks won't take".

As for the blacks in Mexico and Spain who "love" MP, this is easily explained. Racism in these countries is dominated by the fairer skinned, there is no PC, no laws against discrimination, the blacks are outnumbered even more than here, and whining about race in country that has way more problems than race is seen as pussy. And the victim takes on the mentality that the majority is right. Like women or blacks who work in a white male dominated and sexist/racist environment (police, fire department, frat, etc.) take on the victim mentality that their captor/majority is right. They get used to the abuse and excuse it.

Thoom said...

Even you admitted the look of M. Pinquin is a dis to black people. He looks inhuman compared to the other people in the comic. His mom looks somewhat human in some illustrations, but is dressed to look like a demeaning sterotype.

T Mafia said...

The good news is that I found a couple Memin panels in English. Now, the bad news...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marea_rene/22738946/sizes/o/

XantesFire said...

Yeah, Memin is the main character. Like Howard the Duck is a talking duck in a land of humans or Alvin and the Chipmunks or Hong Kong Phooey. Would Howard the Duck be as interesting if he was just a cigar chomping middle aged white guy? Would the Chipmunks music be as popular if they were just done by 3 squeaky kids? Would Hong Kong Phooey be as funny if it was just a chinese martial artist?

They made his appearance different so he stands out even more. Keeping Memin stereotypical appearance brings more power to the story because you become more aware of the stereotypes.

Vicente Fox was Mexico's version of George Bush. Cowboy boots, extremely wealthy parents, mispronouncing words and all.

Most of the latin american countries don't have the racism of blacks because they didn't have the stigma of black slavery and purposeful inequality. (They do have a sometimes a preference of white skins cause usually that implies they have heritage leading back to Spain and money.)

There hasn't been the hatred of black people down there as they has been up here? So why would the same stereotypes have the same effect there? Imagine there were real martians and they disliked all the versions of tv, movie, comics, etc martians we have? Would it be racist?

Is this? Row 2, 3 down. Row 4, 3 down. Row 1, 4 down. Row 4, 6 down. Row 3, 9 down. Row 4, 9 down.

Is it enough to be called racist just cause you call it racist or should there be racist meaning behind it?

T Mafia said...

On a semi-unrelated note, apparently the link I posted earlier doesn't work if you're using Internet Explorer (which cuts it short.) Works fine with any good browser like Firefox, though.